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Mature vs. Mature
By Corvus | April 29, 2008
I just watched a YouTube video of GTA IV footage and no, I’m not going to link to it. You can find a link on Raph’s site if you’re interested. Or, I’m sure, a search for ‘gta hooker’ on YouTube will come up with it pretty quickly. Regardless, it cemented my disinterest in playing the game. It damn near tipped me over into committing myself to a personal ban of all Rockstar games.
My disgust is not because I’m adverse to a mature portrayal of sex in games or any other media. But nothing I saw in the video was mature. Quite the opposite. It was gratuitous and immature. Furthermore, there’s no way I’m going to enjoy playing a character that speaks so disrespectfully to the women he’s about to hire for sex. It’s not funny and it’s downright disrespectful. I understand that this is the “world” they’ve chosen to portray. But I suspect they aren’t doing so in a way that encourages the audience to think about the ramifications of their actions. They haven’t yet and I can’t imagine they’ll start now.
Now, before you start attacking me for being pro-censorship, or a puritan, let’s answer a few questions:
Does this game have the right to exist? Absolutely.
Should it be censored? Absolutely not.
Do I condemn people who play and enjoy it? No, I do not.
But do I want to play a game that’s the equivalent of the sort of porn that features dead eyed women, strung out on drugs, who get verbally and physically abused for the amusement of the men? Not in the least, and make no mistake about it–the intent of the sex in GTA IV is pornographic, even if the imagery is technically not.
Will I ever be comfortable with the portrayal of sex in a game? Yes. But only when the sex is part of a mature themed game that approaches the topic of sex in a fashion that is actually mature. Or when the sex is erotic, rather than pornographic. Or when the sex is an expression of an emotional attachment to an NPC.
Can I give you concrete examples of media containing depictions of sex that I’ve enjoyed? Yes. Alan Moore’s Lost Girls, Short Bus, The Hunger, Michael Manning’s In a Metal Web, Secretary, Angel Heart and Phil Foglio’s Xxxenophiles are just a few of the maturely themed narratives I’ve enjoyed. Some of them are frivolous, perhaps even a bit puerile. Some of them do not contain deep themes relating to their sexual content. Some of them portray forced sex. But each of them contain something GTA IV does not… a maturity that reflects a basic understanding of human sexuality. And I find that utterly lacking in Rockstar’s work to date.
So, today GTA IV was unleashed upon the world and today I find myself a little discouraged to be a part of this industry that I love.
Tagged:grand theft auto, sex. | 12 Comments »
April 29th, 2008 at 8:43 am
The way reviewers are fawning over it is absolutely disgusting. It maintained the core GTA gameplay but it’s perfectly. I’m sorry, those games were inherently flawed, I can’t imagine they’ve fixed all of the issues with them.
I saw some videos and I wondered how the game avoided the AO rating.
I’m just tired of that series. I enjoyed Vice City but once Mercenaries came out I could play an open world without being another thug. I don’t enjoy being a thug. I enjoyed GTAIII because nothing like it had really been accomplished. It wasn’t the first “sandbox” game but it was probably the first to realize what they had.
So much has been done since then that I don’t understand the momentum of the GTA series anymore. It has become another gaming sacred cow.
April 29th, 2008 at 9:57 am
Prepare for an influx of commentators calling you a gay lamer who probably uses a Mac.
They will also, to show their erudition. Compare you to Jack Thompson.
April 29th, 2008 at 10:09 am
Like I said on Raph’s site, I don’t think it’s that gratuitous, and for an open world game – yes, it’s silly that there isn’t really any shops and that strip clubs are accessible all the time, but he’s a gangster and, so reviews say, he can party it up at the establishments with “work associates”, and spend his ill gotten gains there.
It’s not mature, in the sense I don’t think strip clubs in general are very mature.
In any case, it’s a violent crime-based game. There is not much morale reason to not kill someone in the game. Hell, you can run over prostitutes you just paid. It’s not a terribly moralistic game, but it appeals as a game which is open, and frankly, you can do a lot of fantasy stuff (carjacking, killing) you’d not get away with in real life. It’s got a lot of escapism, despite the lack of morals in it.
It’s pretty much aimed solely at men (no choice of female characters) and this is typical, and frankly, is not much beyond what was present in GTA3+ – they had strip clubs, and prostitutes. Does a bit more interactivity with them make it *that* much worse? It’s not like it’s suddenly gone over the line by a mile! This is the same GTA, I don’t see why you didn’t ban Rockstar earlier.
I personally think killing innocents should get it a bigger black mark then any use of sex, but I am European, consider it a trademark to have it the opposite way remember. In my “perfect game” everyone would be named, murders would involve high police detective work and tracking you down unless you were an excellent assassin or something, and repercussions would be felt. As it is, it’s meant to be more fun by just being able to kill most of the people off hand.
You can ban Rockstar from your personal collection, just like how I’ve basically banned all Final Fantasy games from mine, and other series’ and companies games I dislike for varying reasons.
As for AO ratings, I frankly don’t know what’s up with your American system. AO isn’t AO, since it basically means “Banned”. M is “Adult” but is only 1 year below AO. While the actual reasons things are made AO is sexual content and never violence…or something? Anywho, it is an adult game, and Leisure Suit Larry has had a ton of similar stuff from what I’ve read and seen, and that too is an adult (and silly) game.
I don’t refute any point, just stating the possible reasons for such inclusions in the game (which have always been there remember! making it more graphic rather then using your imagination can’t make it that much worse). I agree; a narrative in games where sex is taken more seriously or perhaps is involved in the narrative somehow would be excellent. Many RPG’s romance plots, although usually not too excellently written, provide a climax in a relationship with sleeping together (and even a baby in Baldurs Gate II).
April 29th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
In all honesty, the game is going to be big… precisely for that. But I think that’s because there’s an under-served market there that they’re trying to tap into. I’m not at all against gaming porn (I even think that in the coming years, someone’s bound to make it a big hit), but those are things that should be sold in Adult stores and considered adult “toys”. Right now, kids are going to get their hands on GTA IV and in one way or another, they’re going to see two pixelated humans going at it in the most disrespectful way. Rockstar slid this one in the gaming industry, but I think they should just go ahead and start making gaming porn for the adult industry. That way, they don’t have to feel the need to insert these guilty pleasures in a store that carries Barbie and Pokemon games right next to it.
April 29th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
This is probably not the right time to say that I just ordered GTA 4
I find that I’m pretty thick skinned about mature subject matter, and I’m more interested in exploring the city and the improved story line (from what reviewers have said). Still I do have my limits and I also can’t stand juvenile displays of sex and violence.
I picked up Saint’s Row about a week ago to see what the fuss is all about, and the story and writing was just pitiful in my opinion. Expletives about every other word (I hope this is at least improved in GTA4) to the point I had to keep the volume low to make sure family members didn’t hear it, and more or less violence for the sake of violence. The gameplay was pretty good, but the story and writing took the game down for me.
I think the problem is that most open world games are going to copy the GTA style of over the top violence and sex, without the story telling. Personality I want to see open world games where your not starting out as a killer, or drug dealer and let the world grow and change based on your actions. Cue blog link to where I went into detail regarding this : http://chronicgamedesigner.blogspot.com/2008/04/house-of-bronson.html
I should be able to report more on this in about 2 weeks when my copy should arrive.
April 29th, 2008 at 6:18 pm
Corvus, would you have less of a problem with this video of the game if the game were rated AO? (Ignoring the censorship issues with AO, obviously…)
I haven’t been able to watch the video just yet (sound card contention issues with Banshee SVN), but from what I’ve heard described you could probably find R-Rated Films with similar dialog… Does it hurt the game more that it is a potential choice for the player to make? Does it help that it can be skipped altogether?
I haven’t formed an opinion on this particular issue just yet, but I’ve got a copy of the game waiting for me in the car…
April 29th, 2008 at 6:59 pm
josh bycer: »Personality I want to see open world games where your not starting out as a killer, or drug dealer and let the world grow and change based on your actions.«
RTW’s Crackdown has you playing a “beyond the law” super-powered cop. It’s still ultra-violent, but definitely a change from “gangster”.
RTW’s in-progress APB sounds quite intriguing… Players will choose to be Cops or Robbers and Cops will be sent out in response to crimes (ie, when an “All Points Bulletin” gets sent out). There’s talk of MMO goodness and it will be interesting to see how deep the MMO well goes… ie, if “neighborhoods” look different based on (successful) crime rate. So far it sounds mostly instanced, but it would be really cool if they manage to get some “SimCity” elements into the MMO.
April 29th, 2008 at 10:20 pm
Oh, yes, GTA. I only played Vice City and watched other people play 3 and san andreas. I’ve got to say that the gameplay hasn’t changed in any significant way since Rockstar ventured in the third dimension. The level of maturity has stayed the same throughout the whole franchise, so I’m a bit surpised to see you corvus here ranting about GTA 4 instead of GTA in general.
I think that most people like the game because you can do whatever you want with it. The problem is that you can’t do literally whatever you want, the preset actions for the main character are always misteriously focused on crime. I would go as far as saying that the game is unplayable if you avoid commiting crimes, that is, without cheatcodes of course.
I can’t even recall a good sandbox game that didn’t borrow from GTA all it’s main gameplay features, including the level of maturity.
I wish there existed some developer that would finally develop the gonads to actually make a sandbox game focused on player choice. Give me something more meaningfull gameplay wise, I’m starving. All the missions on GTA are designed around driving and killing!
Although I recall one mission were Tommy Vercetti had to smash someone’s car. That is the only mission were you don’t have to neither race or kill in orther to succeed, in retrospective, it was a refreshing change of pace. Granted, it was one of the first missions, and we all know that developers only get creative at the start of the game.
April 30th, 2008 at 5:30 am
I’ve never been a big fan of the GTA franchise and, again, this isn’t about the option to get–obviously displayed–blow jobs and hand jobs from digital hookers. It’s about the puerile manner in which the violent and sexual material is displayed, particularly where the violent attitudes overlap with sex. I think it’s irresponsible and that it makes talking to the general public about the value of video games that much more difficult.
If anything, this post is really a general lament about the substanceless nature of the franchise and the amount of glory heaped upon each new iteration by the media. GTA4 is just the tipping point for me. Previously I’ve been interested in renting each game, just to see what’s been done with it. Now, I’m not going to do even that.
April 30th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
[...] Friend and game writer/designer Corvus Elrod had an excellent post about how he personally will not play the game (but believes the game still deserves to be played) [...]
May 1st, 2008 at 12:49 pm
I would have to agree with Corvus on this one.
The issue of the media frenzy is significant, because what happens is that many parents remember hearing the title, but fail to remember in exactly what context, and go on to buy it for their inappropriate-age-group kids because, as one mother told me regarding GTA3, “he wants it. Besides, it’s just a game.”
The child in question was a second grader.
As a group, we tend to be aware and do our research.
Many parents are not, do not, and don’t want to know as long as their kids are quiet and out of the way.
Others use Rockstar specifically as an example of why video games are bad for children, etc.
It’s one thing to push boundaries to break new ground, and quite another to push simply as a means of pandering to audience expectations, both positive and negative.
July 31st, 2008 at 9:50 pm
[...] presents the mature subject matter in a very immature way. Suggested further reading on this point: “Mature vs Mature” — Man Bytes [...]